Comments on: Remain Strong

By: jacobs100

jacobs100 — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:40:21 +0000

In a message dated 9/16/2003 10:29:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.hultman@… writes:
You’re not that different, you just need to study history as thoroughly as
you study the diet and then you’ll figure out who’s been lying to you. As for
the rest of your discussion, I’ll send a response privately as I don’t think
this is relevent to the list. We are all from different backgrounds, countries,
political leanings, sexes, and ages. About the only thing we all have in
common is that we’re all Os trying to eat and be healthy in an unfriendly world.

By: Norman Kaufman

Norman Kaufman — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:24:14 +0000

Hello fellow Os… I’m responding to my timed e-mail on America. I know I didn’t
work much on it, writing on such heavy matters kind of off-the-cuff, but I’m a
lazy non-professional. After a few days I trust I’ve seen all the responses. I’m
really pleased to see your responses, very good. It is reassuring to know you’re
out there. I agree with you, but disagree, too (if that makes any sense). I’ll
be replying in your posts.
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:26:55 -0400
From: “Thomas Dekany”
Subject: RE: Remain Strong
With all the things we would like to change about US policies, THANK GOD
that it is America that is in power. I wouldn’t even want to imagine the
“alternatives”
Change has to happen within. When the masses (us the little people)
realize that we don’t have to have wars, then people in “power” will use
other means to find solutions. M2c.

PS: Just look at most families! We can’t even get along with our own
flesh & blood. That is where the change has to happen
*Thomas. I don’t thank God for America being in power. Neither does Europe. Not
exactly. I see America as the spearhead of Western Civilization in a number of
ways. Huge consumer (natural resources), medical/pharmaceutical
mega-conglomerate friendly, anti–human development. It goes to the very soul of
the human being, as an living organism. This is going into Reality, which tends
to get a little scary… but… as to the soul. I shall once again recommend
“Evolution’s End” by Joseph Chilton Pearce. He is one of those writers who not
only explains an aspect of Reality (read it as “God” if you prefer) but
synthesizes the works of great research, pulls it all together and condenses it,
elucidates on the implications of what we are, of Reality. To shed light on
human development, the entirety of our existence, I do not see many sources to
fill out one’s education on these issues, and not with this kind of quality of
thinking.*
“Change has to happen within. When the masses (us the little people)
realize that we don’t have to have wars, then people in “power” will use
other means to find solutions. M2c.”
But the masses of America are already so far gone at this point, most of their
minds are practically incapable of true independent thought. It is a kind of
brain damage, or, brain maldevelopment. This is, by the numbers, not a thinking
nation as a real mind/brain thinks (if that makes any sense).
“PS: Just look at most families! We can’t even get along with our own flesh &
blood. That is where the change has to happen”
*Yes. A great point you have made. The cultures falling within what we think of
as American society… are for the most part so dysfunctional as to be the root
of almost all these problems. It comes down to the people, the people who allow
for the power to be given to the wrong hands (and for them to remain in power),
the people who create the people, the people who create the society that creates
the people who enable the organizations that push/perpetuate all of this evil.
And what exactly is it that is so warped about America? “Evolution’s End”. The
family? “Evolution’s End”. The individual? “Evolution’s End”. What kind of power
can we get if we are, individuals to family dynamic, family-unit as formative
creator, destroyed in so MANY ways? “Evolution’s End”. Some books should be
required reading in the confrontation with modernity’s multitude of problems.
How can we change something we don’t understand? “Evolution’s End”. How can we
grapple with the problems within the human mind itself? “Evolution’s End”. This
place is really fucked. We need to know the true problems, the important
underlying problems behind most of this if we are to go about ameliorating this
incredibly fucked up place. I know when I say “fucked up” it’s a coarse, simple
description… but really, the words are as true as any others.
May seem off-topic in ER4YT-O… but what is the blood-type diet about? What is
it’s essence? Discussing this topic and pushing just one book is the embodiment
of what we are here for, extended to the level of a nation (and from that to the
planet level). So excuse me for this, please.*
Wow. And now Alysoun. First of all, great post. Fantastic. Love it. Thanks. I
will reply within your post due to its length (much appreciated).
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:59:28 -0400
From: Alysoun Subject: Re: Remain Strong
Axel:
I’d also add to your dissertation that the United States is severely
polarized right now.
We have always been a polarized nation and the Civil War was a continuation
of the polarization of
the South allying with the British in the Revolutionary War. Someone made a
comment on the BBC Boards yesterday that if only the Northeast and the West
Coast was allowed to vote, we’d be all set.
Yes, this is a disturbing time in this country. I am not old enough to
remember Vietnam, but I am a historian and librarian and I do read and am
active in politics and trying to raise awareness in this country.
To some degree, the United States (partly due to its geography), partly due
to its size (our borders are huge), and partly due to the fatal flaw of
rugged individualism, has always gone against the grain and has been
isolationist. Think of Woodrow Wilson and WWI and our refusal to get
involved until the very, very last. Even before this president alienated
the rest of the world and the UN, we had not paid our UN dues for years. So
we flouted it even then.
It is more vital than ever that we become a true part of the international
community. The founding fathers knew their history, their vision came from
the enlightenment, an era, which in turn, was a strong reaction to the
religious wars of the 17th century. They were all deists, they believed in
a Voltairian universe. They were also all freemasons, in effect, their “In
God We Trust” was “God the Architect”.
But of course, “God the Architect” is now forgotten and has become the
vengeful God of the old testament again. In a sense we are back to the
religious wars of the 17th century.
*peekaboo. Is this “God the Architect” also a primarily mechanistic God?*
I really fear for this country. As a librarian, I am very active in the
freedom of information and I am also a member of the ACLU. I finally became
a formal member after the introduction of the Patriot Act, which I see as
fatally flawed and flouting international law and civil law. Never in our
history has
the United States targeted its own citizens in such a way. The far right
(have you read the Project for a New American Century manifestos??) is
describing this age as a “Pax Americana” — well, if you really read Roman
history, you discover that the Pax Romana was really disasterous and relied
in the military to put down rebellions *all the time*. This is not what I
want. I desire enlightened, global leadership.
*I agree. This is scary. With the terrorist attack the first victim was our
freedom. Now the government has more power and freedom of its own than I can be
comfortable with.*
Though I feel for the victims of 9/11, there are countless other genocides
in world history. Axel, you are correct, in saying this is a pity fest, and
the rest of the world knows it. It is right to remember the dead of all
conflicts and to prevent the senseless use of violence, and pre-emptive
strikes. Sept. 11, 1973 was also the anniversary of Allende’s ousting in
Chile. The true depth of the situation became known, the torturings, the
disparictos who continue to haunt Chile to this day. But how many people in
this country could point out Chile on a map? 9/11 has been used to rouse
sentiment for everything to the curbing of civil liberties to what is on
the lunch menu at restaurants. From a global perspective, it is folly to do so.
*Was there also something with an agreement/pact or something in the Middle-East
associated with 9/11, too?*
Thanks for your dissertation, Axel, I’ll add mine. Enlightenment is in
short supply these days. The key is to let it depress you and keep trying
to change that. My friends are I are not sitting by idly while these things
happen. Most of us know the course of history and strive to educate people
in this way.
*Yes. Trying to change things… educating people… change for the good of
all… one text comes to mind… “Evolution’s End”.*
Okay off to work, it is Friday.
Allison
*Bravo, Allison! I’m really glad you’re here.*
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:24:42 EDT
From: Maddviking@…
Subject: Re: Remain Strong
Normally, I don’t respond to O/T issues but I feel compelled to comment and
clarify this time. Not to rain on your parade but the smallpox blanket thing
was done by the BRITISH to the Indians. I’m sure it was contracted many other
ways also even from raping sick white frontier women but the British are the
ones who made a deliberate plan and gave diseased blankets to freezing
Indians.
*Hmmm. Are you sure it was only the British who did this? I think there might of
been some of this going on in Minnesota, with the Americans. My memory is spotty
on this (9th or 10th grade) but I was told of plenty of really bad stuff like
this going on… later on in U.S. history. Just because the Brits did it doesn’t
mean they used up all the “disease blanket” points to be earned…*
There is no question that the Indian was gravely wronged and decimated but
it wasn’t all America and he wasn’t all innocent. The Bristish originated the
custom of scalping for bounty and were also the first to have concentration
camps (in India-that’s where Hitler got the idea). I’m not bashing Britain,
I’m just pointing out that great nations many times do bad things, sometimes for
a greater good and sometimes not. Spain devastated the New World Indians
with disease and slaughter, completely exterminated the population of Bermuda,
and held purges in the name of religion and were certain that they doing the
“right” thing at the time. Nations are like people, none are all good and none
are all evil.
*Yeah. Good points. Who is innocent? That’s not my point. We see a perfect
display of human nature practically everywhere. But what is America “founded”
on? What principles? What was the point? What do we PRETEND to be? What have we
been? Those texts, written in “our” infancy… we are going to be judged on
those texts, on the ideas from the base of this government. And the whole
African facet of America, makes it all such a huge hypocrisy that I just can’t
get over the stench of this place. Not to say that I’m teary eyed over much of
Black America at this point in human history. I’m not automatically sympathetic
to blacks or black culture as it is today.*
One comment on your America bashing, which seems to be a favorite pastime these
days by people, is to point out that every country (or large group of people)
that ever existed has been guilty of evil and treacherous things. To single out
only those acts performed by America is a little unfair and skews the picture.
At least, we try to perform self cleansing and have a constitution to protect
each and every individual. I would recommend that you do some study of other
nations and types of Government and see how they handled and handle individual
rights( that novel idea that first showed up in a fledgling nation called the
United States).
*Yes. My comments above apply to the above. And how proactive has our government
been in its ideals, right here in this country? My God. No wonder Jimi Hendrix
went off and became famous in Europe! Our culture is deeply disturbed and not in
touch with reality. Of course, before there was much of civilization to record
human history there was slaughter of entire peoples… so it is only human
nature. The word “humane” as I have seen it… people are appalled at something
and they speak of the “inhumanity” or the “unhumane” nature of things… this to
me is more evidence of the root of our problem. Humanity never was humane. If
anything humans have proved that “humane” treatment, the quality of something
being “humane” is quite the opposite of its popular use. That definition needs
to be changed. We need an accurate, rectified language. Let’s stop the denial.*
I join Thomas in saying that we might have our warts but the alternative is
frightening.
*Yes. And then… The alternative is another monster, partly created by our own
government, like Saddam… These people that spring up, hating all of America.
It does boil down to religion and its influence on people. Yes. Terrorist
psychology that seems practically like a child-level fantasy world, that
religion supplies that. I don’t think the Middle-East is going to be like the
vikings of Scandinavia. There world is pretty scary. They can claim all sorts of
things about their cultures… we’ve got all these different offshoots of the
Muslim religion… blah blah blah. Oh, the beauty, the poetry, the visions of
God! What we have in common! The common good of Man! (read above commentary)
Hmmm. I read something about the character of a nation can be seen in how it
treats its human prisoners and its animals. How about how a
religion/culture/nation treats the very heart and soul of humankind itself? How
do these, all of these nations/cultures/religions treat the Mother? The mother,
the Mother, the most basic, essential, powerful, all-pervasive, fundamental
person in the entirety of any level of organization of our species. The Mother!
How are they regarded? How are they treated? What is their place? What is their
function? Look at any nation/society/culture/religion/whatever! The Mother! This
is humanity, at the highest level. You can see this all flows from One Source.
Want to know what’s going on? The modern age? What’s really going on?
“Evolution’s End”. Psychology, spirituality, Reality itself. The human being,
developmental science I think it could be called. “Evolution’s End”.
“I join Thomas in saying that we might have our warts but the alternative is
frightening.”
*Yeah, well… I find what is happening right here in America, from the
individual level to the cultures as they are changing, guided by our lovely
television-inspired world, rather frightening. And the end-result of America,
itself, very disturbing. So before Iraq gets ruined in ways hardly anyone can
anticipate or undestand, I hope America gets a clue. I am 25 years old and I
have lived in this America in a different time, a different world from yours,
Maddviking. Different from Thomas Dekany. Different from my own “generation”. I
now understand quite well how I am so different, so foreign to my own
generation. It is frightening. When I say the end-result of America, I’m
referring to more than the sociological or developmental implications, I’m
speaking of the physical world our civilization inhabits.*

By: jacobs100

jacobs100 — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:22:44 +0000

Normally, I don’t respond to O/T issues but I feel compelled to comment and
clarify this time. Not to rain on your parade but the smallpox blanket thing
was done by the BRITISH to the Indians. I’m sure it was contracted many other
ways also even from raping sick white frontier women but the British are the
ones who made a deliberate plan and gave diseased blankets to freezing
Indians. There is no question that the Indian was gravely wronged and decimated
but
it wasn’t all America and he wasn’t all innocent. The Bristish originated the
custom of scalping for bounty and were also the first to have concentration
camps (in India-that’s where Hitler got the idea). I’m not bashing Britain,
I’m just pointing out that great nations many times do bad things, sometimes for
a greater good and sometimes not. Spain devastated the New World Indians
with disease and slaughter, completely exterminated the population of Bermuda,
and held purges in the name of religion and were certain that they doing the
“right” thing at the time. Nations are like people, none are all good and none

are all evil.
One comment on your America bashing, which seems to be a favorite pastime thes
e days by people, is to point out that every country (or large group of
people) that ever existed has been guilty of evil and treacherous things. To
single out only those acts performed by America is a little unfair and skews the
picture. At least, we try to perform self cleansing and have a constitution to
protect each and every individual. I would recommend that you do some study
of other nations and types of Government and see how they handled and handle
individual rights( that novel idea that first showed up in a fledgling nation
called the United States).
I join Thomas in saying that we might have our warts but the alternative is
frightening.

By: Claudette Dortha

Claudette Dortha — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:41:02 +0000

Axel:
I’d also add to your dissertation that the United States is severely
polarized right now.
We have always been a polarized nation and the Civil War was a continuation
of the polarization of
the South allying with the British in the Revolutionary War. Someone made a
comment on the BBC Boards yesterday that if only the Northeast and the West
Coast was allowed to vote, we’d be all set.
Yes, this is a disturbing time in this country. I am not old enough to
remember Vietnam, but I am a historian and librarian and I do read and am
active in politics and trying to raise awareness in this country.
To some degree, the United States (partly due to its geography), partly due
to its size (our borders are huge), and partly due to the fatal flaw of
rugged individualism, has always gone against the grain and has been
isolationist. Think of Woodrow Wilson and WWI and our refusal to get

involved until the very, very last. Even before this president alienated
the rest of the world and the UN, we had not paid our UN dues for years. So
we flouted it even then.
It is more vital than ever that we become a true part of the international
community. The founding fathers knew their history, their vision came from
the enlightenment, an era, which in turn, was a strong reaction to the
religious wars of the 17th century. They were all deists, they believed in
a Voltairian universe. They were also all freemasons, in effect, their “In
God We Trust” was “God the Architect”.
But of course, “God the Architect” is now forgotten and has become the
vengeful God of the old testament again. In a sense we are back to the
religious wars of the 17th century.
I really fear for this country. As a librarian, I am very active in the
freedom of information and I am also a member of the ACLU. I finally became
a formal member after the introduction of the Patriot Act, which I see as
fatally flawed and flouting international law and civil law. Never in our
history has
the United States targeted its own citizens in such a way. The far right
(have you read the Project for a New American Century manifestos??) is
describing this age as a “Pax Americana” — well, if you really read Roman
history, you discover that the Pax Romana was really disasterous and relied
in the military to put down rebellions *all the time*. This is not what I
want. I desire enlightened, global leadership.
Though I feel for the victims of 9/11, there are countless other genocides
in world history. Axel, you are correct, in saying this is a pity fest, and
the rest of the world knows it. It is right to remember the dead of all
conflicts and to prevent the senseless use of violence, and pre-emptive
strikes. Sept. 11, 1973 was also the anniversary of Allende’s ousting in
Chile. The true depth of the situation became known, the torturings, the
disparictos who continue to haunt Chile to this day. But how many people in
this country could point out Chile on a map? 9/11 has been used to rouse
sentiment for everything to the curbing of civil liberties to what is on
the lunch menu at restaurants. From a global perspective, it is folly to do so.
Thanks for your dissertation, Axel, I’ll add mine. Enlightenment is in
short supply these days. The key is to let it depress you and keep trying
to change that. My friends are I are not sitting by idly while these things
happen. Most of us know the course of history and strive to educate people
in this way.
Okay off to work, it is Friday.
Allison